Comments on Vegas Poker Scene: How to Waste Time and Money

Hi Nice Blog . Unfortunately, we ended up NOT havi...

2008-04-28T21:38:00.000-07:00

Hi Nice Blog . Unfortunately, we ended up NOT having co-ed Bingo online games after all, because there would not have been enough men. Even tho most of the players did have husbands, boyfriends, male friends or male family members to invite, most of them are unable to attend, not sure they can attend.

I don't really know why there's so much debate abo...

2007-08-15T04:08:00.000-07:00

I don't really know why there's so much debate about this, it's pretty clear.

The variance in MTTs is huge. Absolutely massive. I doubt that many live "tourney pros" really appreciate that. It's entirely possible that the best player who ever lived has played 100 $10k events and never cashed.

The variance in cash games is not so huge, so you can more quickly tell if someone is a winner or not.

Furthermore, the win rates in cash games are higher than tournaments, it's just that it APPEARS higher in tournaments as someone gets insanely lucky and wins a huge amount. Over the long term, the cash player will have won more.

The Bigstack Site Does account for mtt satellites....

2007-08-08T13:21:00.000-07:00

The Bigstack Site Does account for mtt satellites. they are noted by a blue "T" chip.

It all comes down to the rake. Cash games is arou...

2007-08-08T09:01:00.000-07:00

It all comes down to the rake. Cash games is around 4%, MTTs 10%. 4% can be beat, but 10% is very tough to beat. Thats why more people make money at cash, and almost nobody makes money long-term at MTTs. Mtts are funner though, so if you are playing for entertainment value and not to earn cash, MTTs are the way to go. I pretty much only play MTTs now, but my mindset is very different this year than it was last and the year before that. I play for fun right now.

There is no question MTT poker has the highest var...

2007-08-06T17:26:00.000-07:00

There is no question MTT poker has the highest variance. You can go months without a cash.

However, it's easier to make a living playing MTT's when you're being staked.

Staked players are basically freerolling in the MTT universe.

FTP mtt's are rigged.I have definitely been knocki...

2007-08-06T12:50:00.000-07:00

FTP mtt's are rigged.

I have definitely been knocking a lot reducing the amount of MTT's out of my schedule. The WSOP I ramped up on them just cuz the ME is the tits. I am planning on diving heavily back into the cash scene again.

It's a good valid point Don. My only problem is m...

2007-08-03T15:08:00.000-07:00

It's a good valid point Don. My only problem is my cash stats would reflect my opinion almost as strongly as your MTT results probably reflect yours. I do OK at cash games but I know I'm going to consistently make money (not huge, but hey it's better than losing money) in MTT's which I don't always do at cash games. To each their own I say.

"If you're a recreational player and play for fun ...

2007-08-02T08:57:00.000-07:00

"If you're a recreational player and play for fun and some extra money, chart and check your results. You'll be surprised at over time how much money you piss away."

Recreational players EXPECT to piss away money over time. Or at least they should. They're there to have fun, not make money. Sure, everybody wants to win, but for the recreational player it's about the rush and the fun of it all and the chance to win the lotto.

This is exactly why tournaments are so popular. I can plunk down $11, play poker for several hours, and have a shot at winning $thousands if I get a little lucky.

If I have a bad run, I go home a bit earlier than expected, but I know up front what my total exposure is. For me, that's almost always less than one buy-in at a cash game.

If I have a bad run at a cash game, even with reasonable discipline and no tilt, I can still be out several buy-ins before I give it up. And it may well happen in the first 30 minutes of play.

I agree that for steady, regular income (at least as much as honest gambling for a living could ever provide), cash games are the way to go. But for the recreational player, I think tournaments are a lot more bang for your buck. And all those recreational players should mean lots of dead money for the tournament pros.

Tend to agree with You more, than with Chad, yes.

2007-08-02T03:02:00.000-07:00

Tend to agree with You more, than with Chad, yes.

-2k don...your a donkey...j/k interesting post but...

2007-08-01T22:08:00.000-07:00

-2k don...your a donkey...j/k interesting post but I dont agree with that tourney's are a waste of time and money. Cash is king no doubt but like Chad said in his post you can't expect to sit at cash and win the amount you could win in tourney's unless UR playing in the BIG GAME at the bellagio...

Here's a stat I read on Plan3tGong today:"Here is ...

2007-08-01T20:15:00.000-07:00

Here's a stat I read on Plan3tGong today:

"Here is an idea from one of the top poker rooms... the July Average was almost 9,000 ring-game players at peak times (US evenings I guess...) but 60,000 tournament players! This ratio was repeated at between 6/1 and 8/1 at all of the larger poker rooms."

There's A LOT of dead money in tournaments. I should know :-)

Well said, Don. The longer I play the game, the m...

2007-08-01T14:47:00.000-07:00

Well said, Don. The longer I play the game, the more convinced I become that, for all but the best of players, cash games are what it's all about as far as building and maintaining a bankroll. Like you said, cash winnings are what enable most of us to take some shots at the mtts.

Two things though -- #1 there are a small number of players who are able to consistently profit from tournaments. All of us mtt guys know the names of these players when they show up next to us at one of our mtt tables, the guys who have made a few hundy large from mtts over the past 12 months, etc.

And #2, let's be honest, cash games can be a real grind for most of us after a while, but hitting it big in a large mtt is about 10,000 times more fun and enjoyable than just about any night playing cash. And of course the prize for a "perfect" night of poker at the cash tables is what, maybe 4, maybe 5 buyins over a few hours? In an mtt it can be several hundred times the buyin for the event.

Nice post.

Chad C aka cracknaces aka KOD - what is your hourl...

2007-08-01T14:22:00.000-07:00

Chad C aka cracknaces aka KOD - what is your hourly rate for MTTs?

I say that because I'd be interested in seeing the data that supports your statement:

"Please rephrase that cmitch, the real money is in the tournaments (if you are good enough to win it). Cash is consistent, not 'where the real money is'....."

Dammit... I can't get to that site from work. STOO...

2007-08-01T13:30:00.000-07:00

Dammit... I can't get to that site from work. STOOOOOOOPID WORK!!! Cash is king... but every time I see someone make a big score, I think to myself, well, I can do that. And that would be a nice addition to my bankroll... and several tournaments later, I'm making up for the buy-ins at the cash games... stupid tournaments... Oh yeah, see you at the Mookie, BBT freeroll, and the Big Game. :)

"Please rephrase that cmitch, the real money is in...

2007-08-01T12:49:00.000-07:00

"Please rephrase that cmitch, the real money is in the tournaments (if you are good enough to win it). Cash is consistent, not "where the real money is"....."

OK, OK. The real BIG money is in the mtts, but the real CONSISTENT money is in the cash games.

BTW - I though KOD was becoming KOC?

I'm missing my recent win but still positive numbe...

2007-08-01T11:53:00.000-07:00

I'm missing my recent win but still positive numbers.

But I will agree, I can make much more at the PLO and PLO8 cash games with less hair pulling then a 4+ hour MTT.

that is one scary site. kick some ass at bellagio ...

2007-08-01T11:17:00.000-07:00

that is one scary site. kick some ass at bellagio this w/e!

"MTTs are fun but, you are definitely right, the r...

2007-08-01T11:07:00.000-07:00

"MTTs are fun but, you are definitely right, the real money is in the cash games."

Please rephrase that cmitch, the real money is in the tournaments (if you are good enough to win it). Cash is consistent, not "where the real money is".....

http://www.bigstack.com/player/playerinfo.php?play...

2007-08-01T10:42:00.000-07:00

http://www.bigstack.com/player/playerinfo.php?player_id=6870&player_name=cracknaces

He's still KOD

Nice of that site to not include my big MTT cash. ...

2007-08-01T10:25:00.000-07:00

Nice of that site to not include my big MTT cash. Of course I'm negative if you don't include that in the data.

MTTs are fun but, you are definitely right, the re...

2007-08-01T10:16:00.000-07:00

MTTs are fun but, you are definitely right, the real money is in the cash games.

GL with the Bellagio games.